I hesitate to write about this topic as I don’t want to appear preachy or patronising considering I’m no relationship or dating expert; however I have had quite a bit of experience with dating and moreover I’m conscious that many Christian men are not only struggling with women and dating, but are at a loss to know what to do about it.
I have a lot of compassion for these men, because I know it’s a sucky situation to be in. So, even though I know I’m probably going to attract the ire of many by writing this post, I’ve decided in the interests of those who may want the advice of a woman on this topic, I would give my two cents.
Disclaimer: this is just my personal advice, based on my personal experience, and is aimed only at those men who wish to be more successful with women. In other words, this is just my opinion: take it or leave it. For those who want my advice, read on…
There are two major factors I’ve identified that I believe are preventing a lot of men from succeeding when it comes to asking women out on dates.
- Presentation
Men often fail when approaching women because of how they present themselves. I’m not talking about dress (although this is something a woman will factor in) but about their attitude and approach.
A bit of important context: women are naturally intuitive. We all know this. However, I believe the reason why women are more intuitive than men is that intuition works as a defensive mechanism.
Women are physically weaker than our male counterparts, so we have certain inbuilt defences. I believe one of these is intuition – because we need to discern at the outset if the man we’re talking to is a creep or mentally unstable or abusive, etc. We need to know this to prevent getting into a situation in which we might get hurt.
This is why a woman will become more wary around a man who presents as abnormal in any way: we recognise we’re not the physical match of a man and need to discern whether we’re in any danger. This is the case even if the man is not muscled, tall or physically imposing.
As a result, when a man approaches a woman with the sole intention of asking her on a date (as opposed to just having a conversation or getting to know her) he will present a certain attitude that women can sense from a mile away. Often, the man will come across with a desperate sort of earnestness that is frankly very off-putting.
One reason for this is desperation is unattractive. Period.
Another reason is women will usually sense the amount of pressure the man is putting on the situation and on her to say yes, which makes her feel pressured and maybe even claustrophobic. No-one wants to be asked out under these conditions.
There is a reason that the stereotype of the confident man getting the girl exists. Okay, so maybe you’re not that confident – what do you do then?
- Take the pressure off by changing your aim.
If your aim when approaching a girl is to get her to go out with you (especially if you don’t know each other very well or at all), you are probably already putting too much pressure on yourself and on her. Your internal dialogue might go something like this:
Okay, be cool. I just need to get her to talk to me. If I can get her to talk to me, I can ask her to go out with me. But what if she says no? If she says no I might not have another shot, and if I don’t get another shot then this is all over before it even begins so I need to make this conversation count. I can’t fail.
If this is what’s going on in a man’s head, he is putting way too much pressure on himself. If he goes in thinking this, he will come across as desperate and needy and will very likely fail in getting her to go on a date with him. So rather than making his aim “to get her to go out with him”, a better goal might be to simply just use the conversation to get to know her better. Because who knows? The two may be completely unsuited. But he will never even get the chance to really see her for who she is or get a gauge of any chemistry they may share if he’s focusing solely on getting her to say yes, rather than on discovering what she’s like.
If a man approaches a girl with the aim of simply getting to know her and nothing more – at least for now – he is far less likely to come across as desperate and thus, will have a better chance of her saying yes at some point in the near future.
The trick is to establish a connection by discussing common interests, shared values and similar pursuits or ideals. If he finds they don’t share any of these, then she’s probably not the right match for him. If they do, then he can try approaching her again at another time to get to know her even better. If she continues to linger in his conversation, it’s a very good sign. If she disappears every time he tries to talk to her – it’s definitely not a good sign. Eventually, once a clear connection is established (i.e. they both converse easily and appear to get on well), the aim can then shift to asking her out.
It might only take one conversation to establish a connection enough that he can ask her out. But this should never be the aim before talking to her. - Prepare to be rejected a lot.
One piece of advice I’ve heard from men who are successful at asking women out is the need for men to get used to rejection. This is perhaps more particularly for men who are not already confident in talking to women. The advice is to get used to asking women out and preparing to be rejected.
One man I know says men should aim to get so used to rejection they begin to get desensitised to it. I’m not a man so I can’t really comment on this – I’m simply passing it on. However as a woman, I will say that it’s far more appealing to be asked out by a man who doesn’t seem to feel that everything is riding on your ‘yes’ (see previous dot point).
It’s probably worth pointing out that I also know a couple of very circumspect men who waited until they were in their mid-20s to even pursue a relationship, and then only asked out women with whom they already shared a friendship, and were accepted. - Improve your self-confidence.
If a man recognises that he doesn’t have much self-confidence, and that this may be affecting his success with women, then it is well worth exploring this. We all have room to improve, so why not invest in this?
I’ve been practising acceptance-commitment therapy (ACT) with a psychologist for the past few years and let me tell you, I had very little idea of the sheer number and weight of the burdens and wounds I was carrying, some from childhood, even though I was somewhat aware of the negative effects they were having on my life. My quality of life, self-image and self-confidence have improved incalculably since I started seeing my psych for stress and anxiety-related issues.
However, you don’t need to suffer from stress, anxiety or depression to get help from a therapist. Some go for assertiveness training – something I’ve also had a lot of help with. I seriously cannot recommend ACT highly enough.
If you can’t afford therapy, there are other ways of improving your self-confidence, such as taking dancing lessons. I know many men who took up dancing for that reason alone. And let me tell you – it really works.
At my swing dancing classes there isn’t a single man in the intermediate or advanced class who doesn’t exude confidence. It’s also a great skill to throw out at parties and weddings – one which women really appreciate. Dancing is particularly useful at improving confidence because it forces men not only to interact with women on a regular basis but to take the lead.
Another thing you can do to improve your confidence and success is to talk to lots of different women – even women you have absolutely no interest in or intention of dating. Getting used to interacting with women you’re not related to can be wonderfully helpful in talking to the women you are interested in. So, rather than spending all your time with your male friends after Church on Sunday, go talk to the mums, the nanas, the married couples. Talking to women outside of your church life can be very helpful as well – whether it’s your work colleagues or the barista who makes your coffee. - Forget the PC nonsense.
I don’t care what hashtag is trending these days – no woman wants a man to tread on eggshells when it comes to asking her out, just as no woman wants to be asked for her “permission” to be kissed. Women appreciate confidence and directness – and don’t let the world tell you otherwise.
If you’re seeing a common theme in these suggestions, you’d be right – the point of all of them is to become more relaxed and chilled out in general, so you’re more relaxed and chilled out around women. Again, these are all just suggestions and you don’t have to do any of them. However, if you do, I genuinely believe it will help improve your overall success with women, which brings me to point number 2:
2. Asking the right woman out
The other major reason men fail is because of the kind of women they’re aiming at. Let’s be honest – most men will naturally gravitate towards the prettiest, most vivacious girl in the room, just as most women will secretly hope to be asked out by the most confident and attractive man in the room.
Yet where does that leave all the rest? Usually, pining and hoping in vain.
Over the years I’ve seen all kinds of men and women meet and marry, and one thing I’ve seen again and again is that men and women are far more likely to meet with success if they choose to date those who are more like them.
For example, I know men who refused to date women who shared the same ethnicity and continued to meet with failure… until they eased up on that condition and were able to find love.
I know men and women with mental health issues who met others with similar challenges and are now happily married.
The fact is, most of us are not the handsomest, prettiest, cleverest or most vivacious people in the room. Most of us are average. So rather than setting your sights on the most glamorous woman present, why not try asking out the wallflower instead? The shy girl is more likely to say yes than the social butterfly surrounded by would-be suitors.
And maybe you’ve already tried this and it still hasn’t worked. That’s okay – there’s nothing wrong with you. Usually, all this means is you just haven’t met the right person yet.
An important point to remember with all this is I’m not just talking about physical attractiveness. Women are more interested in personality than looks. I’ve had the socks charmed off me by men who literally no-one would describe as good-looking, because I was charmed by their personalities. Ultimately, looks don’t matter if you present yourself well and are asking the right sort of girl out.
I’m well aware that facing each of these points honestly may be very confronting. And, as I keep saying, these are just my humble opinions – take them or leave them. However, if you do choose to take all of this on board, my guess is you’ll be much more likely to meet with success. It also doesn’t matter whether you’re searching for love in your personal life or online – all these points are applicable, regardless. All I can say is, good luck and God speed you on your search!
Agony and Hope 
Whoever wrote this is spot on. And I am a guy. Well done whoever you are.
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St. Roissy of the Chateau intercede for us.
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Mate I’ve tried to get some info on St Roissy, out of curiosity and interest. A short rundown would be quenching.
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Ok,, GOD HELP US IT IS THEN
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“The fact is, most of us are not the handsomest, prettiest, cleverest or most vivacious people in the room. Most of us are average”.
AKSHUALLY, there’s a famous OK Cupid study showing that women rate 80% of men as being below average in terms of looks. Men in general are much more reasonable, and tend to rate girls along a standard bell curve (50% below average). This matches up with what I’ve heard anecdotally from several dating coaches, that most men end up ‘settling’ for a girl who is slightly less attractive than they are, all things considered (i.e. a guy who is an 8 will eventually settle with a 7).
What this suggests is that it is women who are the ones who have a problem when it comes to settling for an average man.
Which goes back to something I (and many other guys) say a lot: women need to manage their expectations, or have someone else manage them. I agree men need to improve themselves and MAN UP, but this is just going to degenerate into some bitter arms race if women aren’t learning to settle for a decent (but unexceptional) guy.
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The problem is going both ways at the moment. Quite a few guys are beginning to complain to me about the dearth of good women, most of the market out there being composed of THOTs. Strip a women of her sexual allure and there’s not much else in many cases.
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In this day and age, decent IS exceptional! I’m thrilled to meet decent people, male or female. They are growing fewer each day…
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Anna, u RE; to men who read this blog (i.e. aspie type latin-mass going Catholic men)?
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High functioning Sean high functioning!
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Why would any man take ‘dating advice’ from a woman? Women, as a collective, have very little understanding of their innate natures (such things as solipsism and hypergamy) and seem only to comprehend that which is on the surface. If an analysis needs introspection, then don’t ask a woman.
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‘Why would any man take dating advice from a woman’? Ah because they need help and they want date, oh and there a good listener!
‘If analysis needs introspection then don’t ask a woman’! Want a bet ,if a women is being quiet she is being introspective- my advice be very very worried!
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Fascinating – no mention of female imperfection being a causative agent. No mention of female’s innate hypergamy, dual-selection mating strategies or solipsism. No – it’s all men’s fault!
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Amen, Eddie! And taking your good analysis one step further, the complaints of college degreed career women who opine about not finding college degreed men on their level, and meeting dissolute and degenerate creeper men on Tinder who send them unsolicited pictures of their genitalia. Yet, they will turn their high brow noses up at decent men in trades. These men earn a good living, in fact better than some of these women with their liberal arts degrees in their academic, health, and government made for work jobs. I’ve emailed (politely) several women authors who’ve written articles complaining about not finding decent (malleable) men with careers and degrees. When I submit “what about men who grew up in intact families with both married mothers and fathers, have a faith base, and work in a high paying skilled trade? What about taking it down a notch (like you expect men to do)? Granted, these are liberal leaning women from large urban areas, but I’ve yet to ever receive a reply. Btw, I can’t agree more with other posters on not taking advice from women on dating. It’s men must date or marry wallflowers, but wallflowers now want the top 10% upper shelf men.
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‘No it’s all men’s fault’!
When married the default response is YES!😊
The question asked before marriage is looking for a yes response or put another way yes is what is heard and needs to be understood😊
Sorry Eddie I’m in one of those moods for a G,up. Mate I agree with how you feel- don’t take it personally as it’s all men’s fault- the problems on both sides as Eleanor and fluvox have said , good hearted people are a rarity .Part of the problem is as a society we’ve ditched the heart in favour of instant gratification . We disrespect woman/ women at our own peril and ourselves for that matter!
Part of the problem is to be found in advertising and women’s magazines. Advertising uses sex appeal to sell things – this is a highly reactive sense and is activated easily in men .Secondly women’s magazines tell women sublimely how they should be or put another way this Is what men want , people’s feelings are influenced or better manipulated by desire. Look at how people dress today- immodestly I suggest and look around you ,society is wall to wall conspicuous consumption ,whether it’s the car they drive or the availability of disposable income.
The solution is simple go back and pickup what we left behind, attend Church, put others b4 ourselves, be disciplined, save money exercise frugality in all areas of life- as they say in flying if you don’t like way the performance is looking check the balance, check the attitude and adjust the power- wake up and be constantly aware of what is going on in your environment. Don’t let life manipulate you – remember to take control and do not cede It at any cost, Be your own man – and remember everything comes at a cost, even the good.
Oh, one last piece of advice, throw the television away , it’s the propaganda tool of the political and the corporate managerial class………………………………… NOW DON’T WORRY BE HAPPY COMES TO MIND
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Well, at least we have some honesty in what women really want. You gotta be somewhat of a jerk and not put her on a pedestal. She needs to show you why she’s worth pursuing….otherwise, move on and find a nicer, better girl.
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Wish I had advice like this when I was single and poorly presented. Well done.
I will save it for my sons.
One thing that freaked me out as a single fellow was sensing that the woman I was talking to for the first time was sizing me up for marriage/relationship. They had every right to do that, but it must have struck me as too early and caused me to end that conversation as quick as I could.
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How am I supposed to get to know someone in the two minutes we are in line at the store? If I had time to get to know someone we’re probably in a group activity already right?
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Cawillis, I think the key here is being friends first – putting yourself out there, then asking a girl out just becomes matter of course, and the question just becomes woven into the conversation.
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This stuff confuses me so very much. No women has ever wanted to be friends with me or even given me a phone number after a few minutes talking at the store. Are we supposed to be friends first? I’ve heard so many women say they would never date their friends. Is there some unwritten rule that I’m not getting that everyone else got?
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How ya going my friend – mate my first piece of advice is to refer you to Anna’s post on HOW TO DO NOTHING ,you’ll find this post in Oct 2019. Take Anna’s advice, this idea of acceptance is a great starting point and it’s a nice place to be. Don’t skim this ,read it carefully – get the/ your focus in the right place. I have got some other suggestions but let me think them through. Take it easy eh.
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I guess I’ll get back to just working on hobbies again, I’ve slowed down since summer. This has been a revolving thing since I was in my 20s work on myself for awhile and then months later wonder why no women have wandered into my orbit, while all my friends have been in a few relationships why I’ve had none. It just sucks so bad is all
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Mate answer two questions for me. Are you confident- or do lack confidence ,and the second is how do you feel when you deal with people outside your comfort zone, ie : family ,friends ect. And thirdly do you use hobbies to escape from uncomfortable situations or do you feel that these things are good occupational therapy in themselves because they deliver happiness because your equipped naturally to do them. Happy new year mate.
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32yo I have never been confident. I don’t know what it means and from trying to find it everyone has a different way of describing it. I haven’t found the thing that says be confident.
I feel indifferent to most people. I don’t have a problem with family or friends
Hobbies are how I pass the time. Nothing special just something to keep me busy when I’m not sleep, working or hanging out with friends.
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Don’t take unhappiness personally …………… be philosophical about it……….it’s a philosophical problem, nut it out in that light. It’s a physical and emotional impossibility to be all things to everyone or every situation.. there’s nothing in the rule book, that says anything about being continually successful – except- THOSE THAT MOTIVATE THEMSELVES WHEN THEIR NOT MOTIVATED ARE THE ONES WHO UNDERSTAND SUCCESS . Talk to yourself ,negative is no and positive is Yes. Yes makes the No disease go away. Happiness in ones self is the gateway to success- others sense it too. Continually be kind and you’ll never taste defeat- in other words GIVE AND DON’T EXPECT – then you’ll be pleasantly surprised!
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I would like to take the level of conversation to the next/another level. Did I miss something?- I feel the reason men are unsuccessful with women, is because they weren’t successful! As yet unproven, but I dare say, a reasonable hypothesis- however I may well be drawing a longbow here. Anna, you raise some very worthwhile salient points- if I was to concisely summarise your post IN REGARDS TO PRESENTATION , ‘WOMEN DO NOT WANT THEIR MEN RAW’: ie ,Tarzan of the jungle. In light of this , I would like to avail myself further, and suggest the use of antiperspirant and oral hygiene – as a coupling these may be thought of as a congenial step in the right / successful direction!😬👍………😊
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