A few words on clarification
Wow. What a month it has been.
Since publishing my article in the Catholic Weekly (For want of a lot of good men) on 2 May 2019, I have been inundated in a deluge of messages, phone calls, conversations and advice. I cannot stress enough how unexpected this has been, given my greatest fear before publishing the article was that nobody would read it.
Because of this fear and to give it a bit more traction, I offered the article to LifeSiteNews, where it drew an astonishing 300 comments (and counting). It was later picked up and republished (with my permission) by Rod Dreher on The American Conservative and The Australian newspaper – both sites also drawing an impressive number of comments.
For an unknown Sydney-based journalist and media advisor, the response has been mind-boggling. Shortly after it was published, I was invited to talk about the article and the firestorm I’d unwittingly created. Despite being horribly nervous about speaking publicly, I accepted and I’m very glad I did, as it gave me the chance to address some of the more glaring misinterpretations I’ve encountered.
It was a great turnout of about 150-200 people, but it occurred to me that only those present heard what I had to say, and I would like to spread my words further afield. Before reading on, please read the article for yourself. There is also this edited version I wrote for The Australian more recently.
“WORLDLY-WISE”
These two little words have undoubtedly been the most misinterpreted, misunderstood and maligned by readers. When I wrote about men who were not “worldly-wise” or who were “socially awkward”, please allow me to clarify my meaning:
What I did NOT mean:
- Shy or introverted
- Secular (unchristian) moral and social views
- Or that “worldly-wise” = the face and physique of Chris Hemsworth, the salary of an investment banker, a sensitive and attentive listener and slavish lapdog ready to attend to my every want and need – and a masseur to boot (or any combination thereof)!
What I DID mean:
- Men who have serious problems interacting socially (including those who are on the spectrum or have an intellectual disability)
- An inability to have a mature, intelligent, normal conversation
- Just plain weirdos
In other words, all women like me want is someone with shared values and a mutual attraction. That’s it! That’s all. I don’t think this is setting a high bar.
What used to be the regular, run-of-the-mill, everyday state of affairs is becoming less and less common. All I’m advocating for is what used to be the social norm, back when your average Aussie went to church on Sunday.
Now, I’m well aware that the above description of social awkwardness applies to both men and women in the Church. However, in my experience, the majority do seem to be men.
SUBJECTIVITY VS OBJECTIVITY
I think some readers lost sight of the fact that when making my assessment of men in the Church, what I was describing was my own subjective experience.
I obviously was not commenting on every man in the Church (I simply haven’t met them all), but my observations do reflect just that – what I’ve observed. These are also not just my observations, but those of dozens and dozens of women (and men) I’ve spoken to over the years.
Clearly though, there is an objective element to all of this as well:
In Sydney churches, women outnumber men nearly two to one.*
Young men are the most under-represented demographic in the Church.
Around the world, men are less likely to believe in God, pray daily or count religion as an important part of their lives, compared to women.
It’s hardly surprising that men are hard to find in the church when there are simply less of them.
This is not necessarily new, either. What makes this era so unprecedented when it comes to finding a good marriage-partner is, I believe, a combination of the effects of the sexual revolution, radical feminism and the ubiquity of pornography.
Contraception and rampant sexual promiscuity mean men are less likely to commit to serious relationships and marriage. The Austin Institute made a fascinating video called “The Economics of Sex” in which they illustrate this – literally. This, coupled with radical feminism demonising masculinity and traditional male and female roles, means men are also less likely to live according to a traditional moral code – something women like me prize greatly.
There are plenty of studies and personal testimonies out there attesting to the damage pornography addiction (primarily a male problem) causes, particularly in forming and sustaining healthy relationships. Make no mistake, it is an addiction and its effects can be just as devastating as an addiction to hard drugs. (For an offbeat and refreshingly honest look into it, check out this video of Russell Brand.) To learn more, I recommend Fight the New Drug, a fantastic non-profit which has done a ton of research into the issue.
WHY I WROTE IT
I’ve been accused of being anti-man, a liar, a whinger, and even of playing the victim in some of the nastier comments out there. While I definitely enjoy a good whinge from time to time, I think I can safely say that none of these labels played a role in my decision to write what I did.
I was deeply concerned to learn about so many Christian women turning their backs on their beliefs for the sake of men. One time you could call an oddity. Two is concerning. Three is a trend. Especially when this all happens in such a short space of time.
I thought, if these women knew they weren’t alone in this struggle, if they had support and heard testimonies from other women out there, would they have done what they did?
But more than all of that, I felt a very strong calling to write about this issue. So I did. I also sent it to at least a dozen different people – including three men – to proofread before having it published, to ensure what I wrote was accurate, truthful and fair.
I have been truly overwhelmed and humbled by the response. And this post notwithstanding, I’m pleased to report that the vast majority of messages and letters I’ve received have been positive.
🙂
*In October 2017 National Church Life Survey data found that 63% of parishioners in Sydney churches were female, with the average parishioner 56.
Update: From reader Brendan:
The point on worldly-wise is interesting for me, being on the spectrum myself (though not heavily). But at the same time, I think it’s important that people realise these are personal preferences of an individual in regards to who they’re attracted to or would like to be in a relationship with. People wouldn’t bat an eyelid over someone saying they prefer blondes, but they do if they said they wouldn’t date someone with a disability. It’s part of the modern psyche. And it’s not you saying that you think these people are less or anything – you just don’t think that you could have a long-term relationship with them, which is fine. It’s better to be able to know that beforehand rather than figuring it out when you’re in the middle of it.
The point on porn is also super-important, and really not addressed enough. It’s something that I’m really passionate about helping people to understand, and fighting against, because of my own experiences with it. It’s a really dangerous, insidious thing, and I’m really glad that some non-Christians are starting to see that too. Fight The New Drug is a great resource.
I’m not a Catholic, but I am a Christian, and I’m cheering for you as a brother in Christ.
Agony and Hope 
Don’t give up! I was where you are for many years, and I also personally know quite a number of women who are real catches in every way – virtuous, attractive, fun – who somehow can’t find a man, so I know you’re not making this up. I finally got married at 35 to a Catholic man of great character (much better than mine) who’s a great husband and father.
One practical suggestion for a small action item – encourage pastors to include prayers for vocations to Catholic marriage, just like we pray every Sunday for vocations to the priesthood and religious life. I’ve heard the latter every darn Sunday of my life since college, but the former – exactly once! Why is that? I don’t know if it’s because priests get so jaded by the things they see and hear about troubled marriages they forget that marriage is a good thing in itself. Or maybe they haven’t noticed there’s a marriage crisis going on that threatens the future of the Church? After all, the Church needs Catholic families for its survival, just as it also needs priests.
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>Men who have serious problems interacting socially (including those who are on the spectrum or have an intellectual disability)
Huh, well I’m glad my wife didn’t feel that way… I’m on the spectrum and we’ve taken in her intellectually disabled brother who moved in with us after their mother died.
Wife and I will have been married twenty years this November, so I guess it worked out for us, but you keep on being you and hold out for the man you think you deserve.
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So, I’m a liberal non-Christian guy who likes to follow columns by others that I mostly disagree with. I came to find out about you through Rod Dreher. May I ask a question? You’ve said something to the effect that most Australian guys tend to be liberal, which surprises me somewhat. Maybe it’s my experience as an American, but it seems like women are more pro LGBT+ etc, than men usually. It’s really pretty rare that I meet a woman (including a Christian woman) that is conservative on, say, same-sex marriage or the like. When I come across a column or video on Youtube or what have you that takes a traditional stand on these topics, it’s almost always going to be a man. Is your experience really the opposite of this?
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Hey, Tom, Aussie woman here.
Most young Aussies are liberal/progressive on most issues. I have never noticed a gap between women and men.
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Most young people in Western Civilization are profoundly uninformed/misinformed, and are thus socially liberal.
Some young people of both sexes are a little more conservative in the tradcon sense (like the author of this blog).
Others are strongly and actively opposing the evil culture we live in. These people are primarily male.
E. Michael Jones, Vox Day, Dalrock, Owen Benjamin, etc.
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Hi Anna,
I’m interested in seeing how this space develops. I’m a guy, based in the US. For a variety of reasons, some the same, some not, I’m dubious about my own relationship future.
I’m not perfect but I’m reasonably humble, reasonably good looking, reasonably capable, reasonably worldly-wise and (small jab at the education industry here) unreasonably educated. Unfortunately, I’m not wealthy and I’m not in the hook-up business.
The last two factors seem definitive these days. If you’re living with not abnormal middle-class financial constraints, you’re hook-up material, but not relationship material. If you also don’t do hook-ups, well… It’s unclear just what sort of useful material you are. 😉
In any case, I think something has broken in the “men and women, women and men” space. I don’t know what the solution is, but I think we could stand to talk about it.
Good luck with your work here, and good luck with finding someone—you’re lovely and you appear to have integrity and the courage of your convictions. It would be a shame if you weren’t able to share that with someone.
Knock ’em dead!
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Aussie: I’m sorry you’re having trouble finding women who want relationships. I disagree that women don’t want relationships with men who aren’t wealthy. I have three daughters, all recently paired up. Wealthy was not a factor. They definitely wanted someone who was reliably employed and could pull his own weight financially – one daughter has an ex who was unemployed a good bit. But they weren’t holding out for prestigious jobs and lots of money. They all chose nice, employed people who, and this is crucial, treat them well. A lot of guys are inconsiderate and are more concerned about what a girlfriend can do for him – make him meals, go where he wants to go and pursue activities he wants to pursue – rather than looking at things from her point of view and considering what she wants. Case in point – one daughter spent all vacations snowboarding because that’s what her boyfriend wanted. Another spent all weekends rock-climbing – ditto. After the breakups, neither has been snowboarding or rock-climbing. They now spend weekends cooking, socializing, watching tv shows they both want to see. One daughter met her husband the traditional friend of friend way. The other two met theirs on dating apps.
There’s a NY Mag article this week about angry incels getting plastic surgery to be more masculine-looking to get a girl. They don’t understand that it’s not their looks that are getting in their way, but their anger.
I wish you luck.
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Did those ladies ever let their boyfriend/husband know what they liked to do? Men may be able to tell many things when they have been with a woman for a while, but they aren’t mind readers.
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Thanks for writing this. It is worthy of conversation. I have a three year old and kinda noticed this trend and my mother especially did. All the new cartoons on disney jr have female leads except for the Lion Guard and even then the new ruler is the sister and the brother is just in charge of the Lion Guard. I am just a couple years older than you and it is annoying to hear that white straight men are the worst. As an adult I just go on with my life but just imagine what that does to children. Some how I believe that this seeps into their conscious. It makes them feel worthless I would imagine. Books can be a great insulator against this. How else could you know that you can slay the dragon or how else do you know that sometimes you go to your death to the sound of music and with courage like Ecthelion did in the Fall of Gondolin. But even more important than that is that boys need a dad. They need a dad to show them what it means to be a man. What it means to love a woman with respect, what it is to be honorable, courageous, and what it means to love God. I don’t go to the same church as my parents but the other week I did. The air conditioner was out and we are in the deep south in the US. It was hot. My father, as an older man, stayed in the service the whole time and then when it was time to take Communion I knelt down beside him to receive Communion. Even at my age I felt proud of my dad and it meant a lot to see my dad kneeling before Christ. No wonder all his children are still active in the church with an example like that. Not only that but my dad is one of the most masculine men I know. In a disaster that struck our area recently he actually chainsawed his way into the disaster area. I could go on and on about my father but needless to say that his three sons, myself included, all graduated college, have good jobs, active in their churches, and have married with children. Give boys men to look up to and we can finally fix this problem.
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Thomas,
It sounds like you are on the right track, and that your dad was a big part of that trajectory.
I’d advise you to actively avoid exposing your children to the Hollywood/Disney propaganda. It is almost all subversive.
Grow a garden with the kids instead. Sunshine, soil, and vegetables are all good for kids.
Read older and better books.
Hollywood hates you and your family.
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Anna, thank you for clarifying – that was helpful in filling some concrete meaning into the ambiguous “worldly-wise” phrase from the initial article. May your own personal search be heaven-blessed, and may your new blog be very helpful to all who read and comment on it!
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Isn’t calling a man “weird” just a label that you are personally not comfortable with him? I am sure a great number of “normal” men fall into that group. Some may fall into that group or out of it solely dependent upon a specific interaction too.
Remember that 80% of the women on a dating site decided only 20% of the men on that same site were above average. That is of course impossible, but is a very common mindset today. Are you completely immune from that?
And why would most men both trying when they are going to be shot down directly in sermons/homilies or indirectly by most women they approach?
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SOrry, that was supposed to be to Julia. Nesting comments is hard.
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Anna, I found your article thought-provoking. It was well-written and addressed a relevant issue. You mentioned Seattle as the city you visited for a wedding and Rod Dreher indicated that he visited you in Sydney. This led to a question in my mind: Have you sought out guys from more humble places, like Oklahoma City, OK; Holland, MI; or Rapid City, SD (or their Aussie equivalents)? I think you may be pleasantly surprised that localism — and faith — is alive in less glitzy locales.
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Thanks for the blog, Anna.
I think that the issue is really less to do with sheer numbers of singles, but rather the formation of those singles.
I know quite a number of single Catholic women and men, and I’d say most of them are probably seriously ill-equipped for marriage. Sure, they attend Mass, receive the Sacraments and attend Catholic events. They also gossip, backstab, get drunk and demonstrate little ability to consider others’ needs above their own. The people to whom I’m referring aren’t even particularly young — most are over 25, and should know better.
I think that there is also a sort of idolisation of marriage and family occurring right now. This is no doubt in response to the destructive forces that have attacked the family unit over the last 100 years. But I think that as a Catholic community, we’ve possibly over-corrected a little. I have heard Catholics make some borderline heretical statements about marriage and those who aren’t married.
I don’t think we need more singles events. I think we need more interpersonal connections across groups within the church. I’ve seen singles groups, married groups, even “dating couples” groups. It’s highly categorised. I think it would be good for couples, families and singles to mix more.
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“They also gossip, backstab, get drunk and demonstrate little ability to consider others’ needs above their own. The people to whom I’m referring aren’t even particularly young — most are over 25, and should know better.”
Which is interesting, because there’s plenty of practising married Catholics who do exactly the same thing. But I agree about the idolisation – or even fetishisation – of marriage.
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Anna, as a fellow Catholic woman who’s been watching the social decay for decades now, I thought I would offer my thoughts on what you’ve written.
One of the reasons you’ve elicited such a strong negative response from a certain segment of the Internet (specifically, the manosphere), is that there appears to be a hole in your analysis of the current situation. The current state of things is not a mystery. It is the inevitable conclusion of feminism. It is, in reality, a state that women have brought on themselves. The failure of women to confront this is something that even the Christian end of the manosphere doesn’t typically like. They call our inability to see our own failings, mistakes, sins, and hubris the “rationalization hamster”. I see less of that in your post than a man might, but I do understand how hard it is to face.
Now that is not to say that you, not I, or any other individual woman, is solely responsible for the dire state of the sexual marketplace in the West. I do believe that we have all, as individuals, made decisions that have contributed to our own problems. Honest mistakes, perhaps, uninformed mistakes, sometime, but mistakes are still the result of decisions.
This isn’t intended to be a lecture. I’m 33 and only got married this year, so I know what you’re going through. I consider myself extremely lucky to have found a fellow Catholic man who was single, who wants children and who attends church regularly. It is extremely hard to find these guys. But you have to have some awareness of why the dating waters have gotten so choppy if you want to have a hope of navigating them.
Again, this is a female problem. Putting careers and bosses ahead of finding a husband and starting a family. Rampant porn consumption (by this I mean literary erotica) in the female sphere that leads to warped expectations and unrealistic ideas about relationships. Widespread contraceptive use and promiscuity. Continual degradation of men, male spaces, masculinity, and so on. Not every woman has done/participated in all of these things, of course, but no one woman has to do all. It’s bigger than any one of us. It is something women as a group have done collectively.
The effect of the culture on most men in our generation has been profound. They’ve dropped out of dating, out of church, out of civic society. They’re demoralized, and many have concluded it no longer matters. What reason have we given them to stay interested in us?
It’s on us to call out what other women are doing. It’s time to start shaming unacceptable behavior. It’s time to set higher standards for ourselves. It’s time to teach girls that not being serious about marriage and family at 22 will leave you alone in your 30s.
But that’s the culture, and this is deeply personal. Reality hurts. You’re living it. I’ve lived it. It took me eight years to find my husband, and that wasn’t for lack of trying. I don’t know your story, but I do know mine and I know I made choices that contributed to where I am. I suspect you’re the same. But let me just say, nothing gets better until you take an honest accounting of yourself and make the changes that need to be made.
For me, that was getting out of the military and working hard on finding, developing, and keeping a relationship. I sacrificed a lot. It came at the cost of better paying jobs, of using my degree, of having all those cute things that the magazines want to sell us. I might not be able to have kids at my age. But I have the chance now, and that’s worth everything.
It might not be your fault, nor mine, but we’ve been saddled with the consequences nonetheless. We can’t control the culture, but we can stop being shocked by it. Other women have ruined the system that sustained our sex for thousands of years. Any one of us who wants a traditional life has to work extra hard. But how can you do it if you don’t realize you need to?
That’s the criticism you’re getting.
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I don’t have any of those problems and I’m 29 and single, so it’s not a bulletproof plan. I accept dates when I’m asked, but like many Catholic women I know, we’re not asked all that often. It’s not like we’re knocking back heaps of offers.
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>I accept dates when I’m asked.
When was the last time you initiated with a man? Have you ever considered that you might need to reach out? The rules have gotten so warped that men don’t always know when they can, or should, show interest.
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Julia,
It is dangerous for men to make those offers in many contexts today. Most of us also aren’t as hot looking as the mental/image/TV/movie competition we have, so we just scrap the whole deal.
Knowing a woman would be interested and have some value for the effort is quite challenging. Facing rejection after rejection is not that fun at all, so why keep trying?
I wish things weren’t that way, but so goes the modern world in so many ways.
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Feminism grew strong because men were dropping the ball, and then were killed in large numbers during wartime. Western societies had to reshape around large numbers of unmarried and widowed women.
I think many of the changes have been very positive and necessary. I like voting. I can own and drive my own car. I like earning enough to live on without ‘having’ to get married; I can have a mortgage in my own name, and a credit card and bank account; I can get excellent health care; I can live adequately as a single woman on equal pay for equal work, all because of feminism-driven changes.
Otherwise I would have to be married off to someone who could provide for me, and if you want to know what that looks like in reality, just watch the rush to easy divorce once the Family Law Act was passed in the 1970s in Australia. I know we have a rosy view that back then, ‘society’ held marriages together through shared values, but it’s also just as likely that expensive and inaccessible divorces held marriages together – often horrible ones based on economic dependence and painful, mutual hatreds. Once divorce became cheap, those marriages fell to bits immediately.
Nothing is as simple as it looks. It’s nice to blame feminism, but it’s also good to remember that it was male-dominated parliaments that passed the Family Law Act, and all Australia’s abortion legislation as well. These aspects of secular feminism suited men in particular.
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You can’t just take the good without the bad. Life has never worked that way. Feminism poisons the well of male female relationships. Independent women aren’t particularly good at being submissive wives. Having your own car ( something none of our ancestors had before the 20th century) is shallow materialism and cold comfort to drive home to an empty bed.
Men have desires and expectations of marriage, too, based on the biology God has endowed them with. Many of those desires are listed in the Bible and are far from being politically correct(Deut 22- 25 for example) If a woman can’t satisfy those, then why should he marry her?
If you want men to return to marriage then kick feminism to the curb and return to patriarchy with explicit sex roles.
Life isn’t fair, you can’t have high a free wheeling independent empowered life and exciting career while also being desirable as a wife. Pick one.
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Sure, feminism has benefited men by uncoupling sexual access from social responsibility. But I’ve read some of those early 19-Teens op-eds about why women should get the vote. Have you? The tone is as whiny and entitled as Salon articles of today.
I find it disturbing that all of this so-called “progress” was built on the backs of a slaughtered generation of young men.
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Cynthia – Of all the commenters here you have come closest to the reality of the situation men face in this sea of cultural insanity, but you (like so many others) ignore the elephant in the room. The elephant is the state, or more accurately the laws and the courts.
As far as men are concerned, women are nothing more than a loaded gun that any type of relationship will glue the muzzle to his temple and the state has not only given the woman permission but also encouragement to pull the trigger any time she wants for any or no reason or just on a whim. Younger men have seen first hand what their mothers, aunts, and sisters did to their fathers, uncles, and friends. They have made the rational and logical decision not to expose themselves to such danger.
The road to divorce court, family court, criminal court, the county jail, and even prison is paved with the bodies of good men who were certain their woman “would never do that to them”. At the end of the road, assuming suicide is not an option, lies 20 years of excessive child support (alimony by another name) and actual lifetime alimony in some states. She gets the house, the kids, the cars and the bulk of his after tax income (assuming she didn’t destroy his career and make him unemployable). He gets a shabby studio apartment if he is lucky or camper van parked down by the river or living on the streets.
This is the reality of the situation. Modern young women saw how wonderfully their mothers (boomers who lived the sexual revolution of the 1970’s) made out by divorce raping their fathers and thought the same strategy would work for them. Party in your 20’s with who knows how many “players”, lock down a beta provider (who they never loved) about the age of 30, spit out a couple of kids for insurance, divorce the beta at 38, and return to “players” before your sexual marketplace value goes to zero.
Young men have awoken to this reality. The instinct for self-preservation overrides the instinct to reproduce. In short, women are toxic to a man’s health, wealth, and sacred liberty. Just that simple. Now do you understand the elephant?
BTW, read the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog. Apply the parable to women and it will explain everything you need to know.
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I would view the courts as a symptom of the underlying problem; female solipsism that may not be questioned nor challenged. But yes, divorce culture is one of the biggest issues we’ve got.
I would think that the solution for it lies ultimately with women. We demanded it. We have to be willing to give it up.
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This^^^^^
With the Duluth model and no-fault divorce being the norm, the risk/reward ratio of marriage makes for a bad investment for men. If you swap out the word marriage for business contract it becomes clear. So you want men to get back into the game? Get the state out of the picture.
One option is Private marriage.
Ceremony, rings, vows, last name switch. But no legal document thus 0% government recognition. Married in the eyes of God, but not the state. No “official” marriage, thus no alimony if the relationship ends.
Basically how it was done before we let the government define marriage. If one wants to make an argument that God requires the government to sign off on the deal good luck.
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John, Cynthia, and Raminus,
You are all talking about important issues.
The problems are far deeper than the author of this article realizes.
Raminus,
I agree with you about Christians avoiding state marriage certificates.
That won’t fix everything, but it is a small step in the right direction.
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You posted what I am others have been saying and posting for years (proof we are all seeing the same things). Young men today have seen the disaster that marriage–even CONTACT with women can do, and they are opting out–at least out of marriage or anything real. It’s bizarre to me, even considering the large hamster wheel, that women cannot seem to figure out that men have reacted/responded to Family Court and “the State” ultimately in self-interest–by avoiding interactions that could cause state intervention (having a child and/or marriage, or even sex).
Women have for years essentially condoned the assault of men in the courts–and they have done so because they know that someday, somewhere, THEY TOO may want to rely on such courts and system to get the cash and prizes they feel they deserve. “Good women” aren’t standing up, because ultimately, they want the same options–so it is not in their self-interest to suddenly demand equal rights for fathers (which we all know, effects child support), or an end to alimony, or any of that. (edited by admin)
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Oss – I have first hand experience of “Divorce Incorporated” and all I can say about the passion play orchestrated crucifixion is the warning from Dante’s Inferno, “Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here”. I went from living in a golf course community to an ancient 24′ motorhome. My almost $1M net worth was transferred to her, the American Bar Association, the courts, and the IRS. A long way to fall.
This next paragraph is the cold financial reality that is now slapping women in the face. I am again a millionaire, this time through inheritance even though I made the 1st million on my own. Will I spend another penny on a woman? Not a snowball’s chance in Hell. What this means is that while my ex may have made out like a bandit, the female collective is denied access to another dime of mine. Multiply me by tens of millions of American men and hundreds of millions of men internationally and you are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars denied to the female offspring of Divorce Incorporated beneficiaries.
This is the real reason behind the brick-and-mortar retail apocalypse (E-tail is an insignificant portion). Men save and invest. Women consume and destroy. And the modern woman is broke, in debt up to her eyeballs for student loans and cars, and maxed out credit cards. Their mother’s strategy of having a man pay her debts and support her lifestyle via marriage is no longer working. The beta simps she targets for cash have awakened to the scam and even they won’t commit financial suicide for a tattooed, indebted, carousel rider who now “wants to settle down:
I’ll close with a few truths. A law abiding man finds himself embroiled in the legal system for two reasons. The first is traffic offenses. The second is females. Obey the traffic laws, only drink alcohol at home, avoid women like the legal system bait they are and you will never find yourself in court. Just that simple.
For young men reading this, I have the best advice you will ever get to survive and thrive in this cultural cesspool that is only going to get worse; keep your wallet in your pocket, your junk in your pants, and your mouth shut. Save money like a madman in preparation to buy rural land as the cities will become hell holes when the collapse happens.
For young women reading this, I don’t have much help for you. All I can say is save money like a madwoman because you are going to need it in old age as a spinster and not a widow. Men are not going to save you anymore. I know it sounds bleak, but facts are facts.
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In college, I had a friend who turned down only decent looking girls who liked him to pursue very attractive women who we all knew were out of his league. I finally called him on it by pointing out that the girls were “pretty enough” and were really charmed by him. In a moment of clarity he realized that he could have lost his virginity much earlier (we were not Christians at the time) if he’d simply accept the fact that he was turning down women who were objectively appropriate in pursuit of women too attractive for him.
Invariably, most of the women I know who are single strike me as a lot like him. That’s not a personal slight against you because I’ve never met you. It’s just an observation about the women I’ve seen and met in real life.
Most women have a very long list of things that they really want and that are “not negotiable.” A lot of the time, if they focused simply on basics (is a decent and godly man for the most part, in decent shape, has a job, has a work ethic, treats me respectfully and seems like the kind of guy who wants me to orgasm) they’d probably find it a lot easier to find a man who is going to tick enough essential boxes to make a marriage work.
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I have never met a man who has those basics.
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There are no employed, decent men of good health who treat you respectfully in your current location?
Have you considered moving? Serious question.
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Did I read your comment correctly? Have you never met a single man who is
mostly…
…decent
…Godly
…fit
and…
…employed
…hard-working
…respectful
…and empathetic?
Really?
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@Ted and Dragnet. I think by “met” she meant “dated’, or “been pursued by”, or something like that. Met in the romantic sense. Maybe she felt that was implied by the last quality listed – “wants me to orgasm” 🙂
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You have never ever met a man who is decent, godly, in decent shape, has a job, a work ethic, and treats you with respect? Are you serious?
You have met such men. It’s just that you weren’t physically attracted to them and they didn’t have the face or body you wanted.
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Hi- I was wondering if you could discuss your background. I am not accusing you- but there is a perception that women use up their 20s with a carefree, clubbing, many boyfriends lifestyle. Then they try to find marriage when they get to their early 30s (as you are) in order to have children and find a provider. One of the ways they do this is by going to church to try and portray themselves in a “I’m dutiful” type of way.
I highly doubt that describes you- but you can see how it raises many red flags.
Thanks!
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Hi there, it’s a fair question. Unlike many others of my generation I did not spend my 20s clubbing and partying (I did go out to these places but it certainly wasn’t habitual), and I’ve been a devout Catholic all my life. I’ve been actively open to marriage since I was in my late teens, to be honest. I had a few relationships in my 20s but they sadly just didn’t work out. This also goes for my friends and others I was writing on behalf of (though not all). I will be writing more about this in future so watch this space. Thanks for your question.
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Dear Anna, around here, the early-20s women are putting their all into building successful careers; so of course manospherians resort to CATcalls
– alot easier than stepping up one’s resume 😉
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“alot easier than stepping up one’s resume”
Funny thing, I know plenty of young men with six figure salaries who can’t get a date to save their life. One of them, who is now an R&D director, told me that he just gave up trying to find a woman who would date him. Of course, he isn’t what you might call handsome. Maybe he just needs to buy a Harley.
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Where do you draw the line between a “serious” problem interacting socially, and a merely “mild” or “moderate” one?
I don’t think it is very charitable to single out individuals with autism spectrum disorder here. While it is true, as a broad and sweeping generalisation, that people with ASD will have some greater degree of difficulties with social interaction compared to people who don’t, the degree of difficulty varies immensely from person to person. Some people with ASD, their difficulties with social interaction are very obvious to even a casual observer; for others, their difficulties with social interaction can be far more subtle.
There are also many other conditions (than the two you mention) which can cause difficulties in social interaction. Some individuals with ASD have far less social interaction problems than other individuals who don’t, but who instead have some other condition that can have a negative impact on social skills (for example, social anxiety disorder.)
I think, at the end of the day, we often have to make compromises in relationships. You have to make the best of the options actually available to you, not the options you believe ought to be. My wife and I are somewhat of an odd couple, in so many ways we are unalike, and sometimes I think we might have both been happier with people more like ourselves in personalities and interests. But, we have two beautiful children, and those children only exist because we are together, and I truly believe that this was God’s will for our lives – and, “What God has joined, let no man put asunder”.
Maybe one of these men who have “serious problems interacting socially” or who are “just plain weirdos” is actually God’s will for you? I don’t know – I make no claim to speak for God – but, I really do feel that my wife was God’s will for me, even though she fails many of the objective criteria for a relationship I would propose to myself, just as much as these men fail them for you.
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I encourage you to view the similar journies of two of your Protestant sisters, Wendy Griffith of CBN/700 Club and Lisa Anderson of Boundless.com.
While perusing their writings, please frame your thoughts (feelings) from a careful reading and consideration of Cynthia’s comment.
Best regards.
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Well Anna, I think you’re very brave, because the comments here are a pretty representative sample of the kind of stuff you’ve had to contend with so far … ! (yikes)
Given that I wrote an entire article in response to yours, you are owed something of an explanation about me. I have never married, and I’m turning 50 this year. I wanted to be married for most of my 20s and my early 30s, and got engaged in my early 20s, but it was an appalling choice, and I broke it off three months before the wedding. I should have broken it off about three WEEKS into the relationship, but when you’re only 19, you do stupid things.
I followed this up with several ‘long-term’ relationships, none more than a few years long, because even I know that if it’s working, you get married, and if you’re not married after around 18 months or so, or even engaged, it’s a non-starter.
I now seriously question whether I really was seeking marriage in that time, as in reality my life was pretty much out of control – I think I was actually seeking a set of solutions to my problems, which is what I wrote about in my article. I have had to examine myself very thoroughly on just how I really interpreted marriage and what it could do for me, and what its purpose was.
Then the unexpected happened – and I mean COMPLETELY unexpected – and I ended up in consecrated religious life for just over five years, which occupied most of my 30s. That didn’t work out either. Dated a bit since. Disastrous. Stopped bothering.
So here I am.
I have had tedious vocationsplainers tell me about my ‘lost’ vocation, and my ‘single vocation’, both of which I consider to be nonsense. I have met almost no one else who’s walked a mile in my shoes, so until they do, they can shush. (The only other person I’ve met who was even vaguely similar had never really dated before religious life, and then left it, panicked, and married the first guy she could catch – the ‘snow leopard’ of my article. Watch this space.)
I know the desire for marriage is painfully real, but it’s a human, natural desire, rather than a ‘vocation’ per se – I’m comfortable with ‘vocation’ being limited to consecrated life and priesthood, because these forms of life are supernatural and need a special call. Marriage doesn’t; anyone can choose it, like singleness.
Marriage and singleness are just states of life. You want to see it as a special vocation? Have at it. It helps some people to do that. In some cases, it may be. One thinks of Catholic couples where they were directed firmly to a specific person and pretty much told to marry them by God. Fine, but not every Catholic couple is like this; nor should they be. Most people make a choice out of several likely candidates, and then commit to making it work.
For me, the most sensible thing to do now is just live it. The core question is: in what state of life can I best serve God right now? The answer for me is singleness. One day the answer may change. I’m ok with that; it will be made clear if that’s the case.
This certainty – that THIS is the best state in life in which I can serve God right now – doesn’t take away my desire for union, communion, sex, closeness, intimacy, a home, children, feeling protected, feeling loved and cherished, feeling chosen, and all the other things that usually go with the married state. I just have to find ways of achieving most of those things in lawful ways outside of marriage – and it’s surprising just how much love is out there when you stop looking for it in romance.
Is it hard? HELL YES. Especially when you’ve been sexually active in the past, and have had to face that reality and turn your back on it for the sake of the Kingdom. But I can tell you that marriage is every bit as hard. So is consecrated celibacy. My ringside seat on collapsing Catholic marriages and erring clergy have taught me that.
But if you rethink your life, as you suggested – if you start putting the Kingdom first – you find that you start to watch the donut, not the hole. And to your surprise, the donut turns out to be very large and also quite satisfying. Having meaningful work is probably the greatest and most important asset in having a fulfilling life: knowing that your work is helping to carry out some purpose in God’s scheme of things.
Journalism is a great job in this respect: you can and already have made a difference. You may not do it for the rest of your life, but it’s a great start.
Take courage! And know that at least I am actually READING your stuff before I respond …
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This is a part of the problem. The priesthood is a special call, but the religious life is not. It is offered universally, and those willing and able to take it ought to take it since it is objectively superior. “Let him who can take, take.” Those are the words of our Lord. The counsels are given universally, it is simply a mystery of grace that God does not move everyone to take them.
And this idea of the religious life being a special calling is the primary reason that many young men and women spend their teens, 20s and 30s convinced they are called to marriage, and everyone around them encourages them in this direction.
Newsflash: you can’t know you are called to marriage without a person to marry, and long periods of time without anything changing is a fairly significant (though not definitive) sign that one ought to consider the other possibility: the religious life, and one should especially do so before it’s too late.
If anything, marriage is a more special calling than the religious life, since the counsel against marriage was given universally. And seeing the pride of place the religious life holds and the reasons for that gives a much better perspective on the good and the bad of marriage, of how to live the married life faithfully, and what our ultimate goal is no matter which path we choose.
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I’m a good man who left the church. Maybe I can shed some light on the gender imbalance in churches.
When I was in my mid-20s I was a devout christian and wanted to get married and start a family with a young (18-23), attractive, christian woman. I prayed a lot about it and it was something that was constantly on my mind. I was in a new town after college and attended a bunch of different churches trying to find a place I fit in. In the process I got a pretty good handle on the women situation in the Church.
At first glance church would seem like a great place for a young christian man to meet a spouse because there are more women than men. But truth be told, if church was a great place to meet women THERE WOULD BE MORE MEN there.
The thing that struck me was actually the shortage of women in the demographic I was looking for and the unavailability of those few young women who were there. At a church with 600-700 members, for example, there were maybe only a dozen women in the right age range who attended church regularly. Of those, some were married and some had boyfriends. So out of hundreds of women there were only a small handful of young single women. And they were difficult to start relationships with. I got rejected a lot. And I’m tall, athletic, handsome, smart, talented, responsible, and confident. Ideal husband material. But young women couldn’t have been less interested. Maybe I wasn’t charismatic or “worldly wise” enough.
Well, I got worldly wise. I started dating outside the church. I met my wife when she was 22. We got married about a year later and have 4 beautiful children. And church isn’t really part of our life anymore.
If the Church wants to get and keep men it needs to be an institution that facilitates them getting married and starting families with young women. Men are about as interested in starting families with 30 year old women as women are starting families with awkward weirdo men.
Timing is everything.
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“Men are about as interested in starting families with 30 year old women as women are starting families with awkward weirdo men.”
That truth bomb hurts. It is a bitter pill.
I know you have given up on Church, but you must not abandon Jesus Christ. He is risen, He is Lord, and He will return!
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*an institution that facilitates men getting married and starting families with young CHRISTIAN women IN THE CHURCH. Those two caveats are critical.
Obviously christian men marrying young non-christian women, or non-churchgoing quasi-christian women will not get or keep them in the Church. I ended up marrying a lukewarm christian woman, the easter and Christmas type. The men in my Bible study warned me about being unequally yoked and they were right. As I fell in love with her my enthusiasm for church waned and I quit going.
I am still very happily married to her.
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“But truth be told, if church was a great place to meet women THERE WOULD BE MORE MEN there.”
I guess that’s the long and short of it. I need to stop looking back over the last 30 years and wondering why no one ever took note of my coming and going to mass every weekend as a single guy. The kind of single guy that the women wail that they can’t find – educated, socially and financially competent, etc. If anyone wanted to find me at church, they could have asked. But no one ever did.
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Larry, women want educated, financially, socially responsible men -with charisma, (aka Game). Without the charisma you are invisible. When women say “I want this trait in a man” they mean “I want this trait in a charismatic or “worldly wise” man.
Similar to a man saying “I want a wife who can cook” they generally mean they want a young attractive wife who can cook. They generally don’t want to date older women no matter how well they can cook.
Women can be very confusing and charisma with women is hard to develop on your own because it isn’t intuitive for most guys. Women, even christian women, expect you to “just get it” and if you dont they arent going to help you. The church needs to improve how they teach young men. If men don’t learn Game and get confidence and experience with women in the church they will either remain involuntarily celibate or learn Game outside the church and likely leave like I did.
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In addition to helping young men learn to be attractive to women, the church also needs to encourage young women to prioritize finding husbands IN THE CHURCH. It makes no sense whatsoever when young women come of age for a church family to send them off into the world, to college, or wherever, during their most critical dating years. Keeping them in the Church they grew up in and marrying them to men in that church who have been vetted by that church would be a recipe for success. But that is not what happens. The women aren’t there when the men are the most interested in them and consequently the men aren’t there when the women are the most interested in settling down.
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bigjohn, I think I had sufficient charisma and game and what-have-you. I know many ex-Catholic and non-Catholic women who could vouch for that. But not any actual Catholic women, because I’ve never ever met any. I’m convinced that this is because all the social facilities that our ancestors used to meet other Catholics, are long gone. Anna and her generation may not even remember parish socials and picnics and carnivals – events where singles could become known in the parish and often get nudged together.
What few activities exist now, are things for the handful of church-nerds that every parish seems to have (retreats and lectures and etc.) that an ordinary guy like me would never attend.
That’s always baffled me over the years. Women say they want to meet Catholic men… and men say they want to meet Catholic women… but parishes do absolutely nothing that might facilitate that. We literally have no way to meet. And so the marriage rate is nearly zero, and nobody really cares.
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As Cynthia noted, women by and large miss their own hand in partially causing these problems. Here’s the stereotypical manosphere path followed by many who buy the lie of feminism: Spend your teens and 20s focused on career and casual dating, slowly piling up “notches” with alpha men willing to sleep with you but not marry you. Once they realize by their late 20s that “the wall” (aka. diminution of attractiveness, especially vis a vis younger women) is approaching, you either keep holding out for that perfect alpha or lower standards for a beta schlub you wouldn’t have dated in the past). Your prime fertility years are gone, spent on career and dating, meaning few if any children. To increase the bad deal for males, the more sexual partners a woman has had, the statistically greater the chances are that she’ll take Mr. Beta Husband (who meets practical needs but doesn’t give the tingles earlier relationships did) to the cleaners in thanks to divorce laws favoring females. Meanwhile, the alphas delay marriage longer since they can find cows to give the milk for free.
And if you say: I’m still a virgin, I’ve been looking since I was 18, and now I’m 30… Well, exceptions happen in God’s providence, but I’d suggest an honest look at yourself. Men are attracted to pretty, young women. Some women are born with more looks than others, and some women realize the truth too late, but here are some controllable things that will greatly increase male interest:
* Thin / in shape
* Cooking skills
* Feminine – a submissive, smiling, kind, sweet, domestic spirit
Let’s focus on the last one, because it’s the area where so many Christian women reveal feminist infection. “What does he want me to be, barefoot and pregnant?” (Answer: Yes, sometimes.) “My career is as important as his.” “Mutual submission.” “I’m no doormat.” These attitudes swamp even supposed “Christian complementarian” sites.
I meet far more functional feminists than feminine women. It doesn’t take long to see the difference. Even if you think this criteria is shallow — and having been married many years I can tell you it most decidedly isn’t– women demanding that men be attracted to “strong women” is like men resenting women for not preferring pudgy, jobless, basement video game players.
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Women (including many Christian ones) don’t realize that men find strong, independent, career focused women in their 30s just as attractive as women find unemployed basement dwelling video game playing men.
You are totally right about
1. Thin
2. Cooking skills
3. Feminine and submissive
4. (And I’ll add) Young
Call it shallow if you want, but men are biologically programed (by our Creator Himself) to be attracted to women with these qualities..
I’ve been married for nearly 20 years. My wife is very feminine, submissive, and a good cook. She is also thinner than most. I find her a very attractive and pleasant helpmate.
I hope she finds me to be a good husband.
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Cynthia – as a happily married man of nearly 37 years, Your comment was a succinct statement of the part women have played in the terrible state of relations between men and women. I would ask you to expand it and seek publication in life site news and other sites. Your personal sacrifices to achieve your stated desire of marriage and motherhood is precisely what most women do not realize they even need to consider doing. Every Christian women needs to take your words to heart and get before the Lord Jesus in prayer and ask Him what needs to change in their lives to achieve marriage and motherhood. It goes without saying that Christian men should do the same kind of self reflection in God’s presence. Bravo to your inspired story and may the Lord Jesus bless your womb full of children!
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I don’t think most women would care much for what I have to say. The problem we seem to have is that we lack imagination in failure – we can’t conceive of it when we have a chance of correcting course, and then we can’t admit it later on when it’s too late. It hurts too much.
The manosphere is successful because it offers men a path to fixing their problems. Does it help everyone? Lord no. But there is possibility there. There is no equivalent for women because it’s much harder for us to fix things for ourselves. Facing it can often bring nothing but the realization that you can’t undo your mistakes.
The woman writing this blog still has time though. I hope she thinks about the path she’s going down with this blog. It might not end well for her.
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In the Providence of God, men have a longer window of time during which to get on the right track.
The biological clock ticks more quickly for women. It is just a fact.
A man can see the error of his ways at age 40 and still recover to have biological children (Roosh V???). The stakes are higher for women.
It also seems like men tend to be more emotionably able to change course.
Maybe that comes from the fact that men are created to lead and women are to follow the men.
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I believe that the advent of contraception has been the most significant revolution in modern history. I have never heard that mentioned by anyone. Sex is no play thing and without commitment it creates more baggage to overcome than we humans are already saddled with, making a successful marriage even more difficult to achieve than before. Contraception has eliminated the need for taking responsibility. Before that, courtship was either chaste or, if not, you were faced with a shotgun wedding if the father was prepared to take responsibility for the child he had helped to create (as in my case in the early 70s). In this case both parents were forced to grow up. If the father was irresponsible, he remained that way but the mother, if she didn’t terminate, grew up, albeit with difficulty.
I believe sex is far more consequential than almost anyone will acknowledge, perhaps apart from Freud. We mess with that at great peril. Contraception has dealt this hand and most of the ills addressed in these blogs are a fairly direct consequence.
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Wendy Griffith has never been married.
How on Earth can anyone follow her advice on how to land a husband? She has perfected the art of NOT landing a husband but making money by misleading other women that she is somehow an expert at this.
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Yes. If the coach has not won a game in his career, why who take his advice on how to win?
As Bill Burr says, it’s like a guy writing a book being pregnant. The Third Trimester by Me. “Ladies, you going to feel a little pressure.” How would I know?
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There are few young people at church because the churches have made themselves irrelevant. I’m guessing that the Anglo world would be very different if the mainline (i.e., Protestant) churches hadn’t accepted higher biblical criticism, the Social Gospel, multiculturalism. etc. as their guiding lights. What’s the point of showing up at church to hear about the evils of “structural sins”? The mainline churches gave up their authority over personal morality long ago. Multiple generations have passed since the mainline churches adopted liberal theological views; each succeeding generation has had a weaker attachment to Christianity than the previous generation. Although the Catholic Church is (was?) numerically significant, mainline Protestant churches were far more influential than the RC Church. When the mainline churches basically secularized themselves, the rest of the culture followed. And whatever moral authority the Catholic Church still had unfortunately has been wrecked by the scandals.
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Anon,
I suggested the blog host peruse Griffith’s and Anderson’s writings after serious consideration of Cynthia’s commenrt to perhaps help her see the deserted wasteland she’s headed for. A stretch, I know.
The elephant in the room hasn’t been addressed, and probably won’t, but anyone with a pulse knows what it is and knows it’s happened.
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I really like reading through an article that can make men and women think.
Also, thanks for allowing me to comment!
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I will say a few things:
1) This woman, like many Australian women, is IMO a bigot – she is explicitly critical of autistic men (autism is a disability) and has what I suspect is a very low tolerance for ‘weirdness’. Again, this is characteristic of many Australian women. Bigotry is not a particularly attractive trait in any partner. One also suspects that she rejected non-white men out of hand, as many Australian women do.
2) What I therefore suspect has happened is that she met many decent men in her 20’s, but rejected them for questionable reasons (being ‘weird’, for example), when demographics were in her favour. Consequently, she has wound up single in her early 30’s (pushing mid-30’s).
3) Men her age are increasingly either married off or are jaded from dating Australian women, who are in my experience too often exploitative, intolerant, selfish, unintellectual and lacking in empathy. They also age poorly due to excessive tanning and alcohol intake. Comparing them to women I’ve dated overseas is jarring, from an emotional, intellectual and physical perspective. A 35 year old Italian woman I dated in Venice recently has aged better than this lady despite being older.
4) Younger men (men in their 20’s) in this country are increasingly pessimistic and nihilistic about the opposite sex IMO. Conversations with them are eye-opening and IMO many younger women and older men have no idea just how fraught relations between the sexes are going to be here going forward. I consider this to be a great tragedy, but the powers that be won’t see it until it’s far too late to do anything about it. The future will belong to those that show up and increasingly those will be the children of 1) recent immigrants from outside the Anglosphere and 2) irresponsible people with nothing to lose, given that the casualisation of the economy doesn’t exactly encourage marriage or family formation among younger folk.
The points made above regarding promiscuity and its likelihood of leading to relationship failure and divorce (which is quite damaging to many men in the Anglosphere, both emotionally and financially) are well made.
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